The GW-Scripting list is a discussion list for information regarding the development and use of Window-Eyes scripts. Any subscriber of the GW-Scripting list has the ability to post on-topic messages.
From:
Chip OrangeSubject:
RE: Window-Eyes Script WritingDate:
Sun, Aug 22, 2010 4:21:05 pmthanks Richard, all great points.
I understand though, this is a frustrating topic on both ends; both from the
end of people needing the info, and those of us who try, but don't get it
quite right. we both tend to snap when we get frustrated. thanks to You
and Bruce for reminding us of that.
Chip
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard G Applegate [mailto:richard.applegate@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 2:20 PM
To: gw-scripting@gwmicro.com
Subject: RE: Window-Eyes Script Writing
Keith:
If I might suggest:
1. When one is asking for assistance one should never make attacks upon
those who are trying to offer such assistance. I dare say the fellow you
are attacking is probably much more knowledgeable of Window-Eyes and the
Visual Basic scripting language than either you or I. If you don't find
some of his suggestions to be helpful, you might indicate that in a more
diplomatic fashion as another person on the list has done. I too have a
vague understanding of the concepts of VBS and the Window-Eyes object model
as well as HTML and C++. Unfortunately, I have also been unable to
translate my vague understanding into Window-Eyes scripting abilities. This
is not due to the idiocy or stupidity of someone else's offerings; it is
because I haven't spent the time, effort and/or money required to learn the
material.
2. The members on this list are offering their knowledge voluntarily. Your
statement that someone needs to do this or that is false. Those who have a
working or better knowledge of VBS and Window-Eyes will suffer no ill
effects if you are unable to translate their offerings into useable
information. It may be true that you need things presented in a different
manner, but that need is yours. You may find their offerings of little or
no value, but how much have you paid for the information? I for one
appreciate all of the offerings of assistance made on this topic. Not all
of them have been helpful to me, in fact none of them have turned me into a
Window-Eyes scripter, but that doesn't mean the information is of no value.
My suggestions are also at no cost. If you can't use them, don't bother
responding just delete the message.
-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Hinton [mailto:keithint1234@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:41 AM
To: gw-scripting@gwmicro.com
Subject: Re: Window-Eyes Script Writing
What is all this nonsense?
I have worked with HTML a little bit. I know XML is similar, and I've seen
some XML files.
No thanks, I refuse to read your stupid idiotic Microsoft Visual Basic
Scripting HTMl webpage tutorial.
I am not stupid enough to read a stuipd dumb-idiotic document like that.
If the tutorial is not specific to Window-Eyes, and VB scripting, than I am
going to give up right this second, and there sin't anything that the GW
Micro staff, or anyone else can do to stop me.
I just totally refuse to read that tutorial you mentioned, so you wasted
your time in even attaching it.
Don't try to do that again.
Tom's right, and BT, you aren't.
Such a thing would totally overwelm somone like me, and it already ahs.
I agree with what Tom wrote, and not you.
Your speech example totally sucks. No offense, but maybe you need to go back
to Doug Geoffray and Aaron and have them hold your hand while they walk you
thorught he speak "Hello World!" or other such commands yourself.
I don't think that Aaron, Raul, or Doug, would make a beginner read a
tutorial that had nothing to do with Window-Eyes scripting.
What a disappointing help this list has turned out to be.
If GW Micro can't do better than that witht he resources it provides, than
what is the point in me trying to learn when the very users I'm trying to
asks questions of decide to givem e links that I consider pointless?
I don't use Outlook express, and work primarily with web-based emails.
I refuse to go saving HTML files onto my hard-drive.
No offense, but if you want to learn Window-Eyes scripting, I would think
that Chip Orenges examples in the wiki on part two are at least more
practical than the Microsoft VBScripting refference.
Unless this can be recitifiedd and I can really get a clear look at how
VBScript relates to Window-Eyes only, than you folks on this list (and Tom
this isn't about you or chip) it's your other friend who keeps posting
useless examples and links of refference to this list) has turned me off
completeyl from even attempting a simpol script.
All I can do with any confidence is something like Speak "Hello World!"
That is an easy script. Anyone could do that one without even reffernecing
Chip Orenges wiki article.
I understand Doug Geoffrays example of VB script, I have an idea of how
methods and propertys work.
What I want is some tutorial or examples that teaches a user VBScript, but
specifically teaches you VBScript with WIndow-Eyes as the soul topic.
Sorry, btu somsone on this list still needs to put the time and efort into
to creating one.
I'll help if I can, but that's my opinion.
I have no interest in doing VBScript for anything but Window-Eyes itself, no
HTML, no XML unless it relates to Window-Eyes alone.
I thoguht that some of the examples when learning the jAWS scripting
language for instance way back with JAWS3.7 well..the manual was a bit too
detailed. And the examples in the manual flew over my head. I reached a
point where I just couldn't keep learning.
Not that I didn't try, but once I began leeping into variables and other
such things, the manual only got more involved, not less.
Tutorials should not be super super complex to a beginner.
A tutorial for the beginner is what I am after.
Specifically dedicated to my point, teaching the beginner through practical
examples and stuf how to script with Window-Eyes.
VB Script is something I can learn by reading official microsoft manuals,
etc. I don't need a tutorial to do that.
I can always reffernece Tom's examples on this thread, Chips writing, look
at script code, and such, replay the only script recordings I have.
As for attending GW Micro training classes, I've looked at the prices.
I don't have a job at the moment, and own't go into details, here, but could
never aford Window-Eyes training classes nor the phone training.
I don't make over 600 dollars a month and am on a fixed income for those who
really want the point blank truth.
I can't attend a Window-Eyes training class.
I work a little easier with one-on-one personally-and this has held true
thorughout my entire life. Not simply computer discussions. :) If any of you
on this list are interested on adding me to Skype, my Skype ID is
skypedude1234 Thanks for attaching what I consider to be point blank useless
material IMO.
Unless it again, is dedicated to Window-Eyes and how VB script works with
Window-Eyes so that you can then write a VBS script for Window-Eyes that
will make an application work, then..who knows.
...well
, I've ran out of stuff to rant about.
Better quit before I enter chapter Nindy of the rant world.
On 8/21/10, Tom Kingston wrote:
I understand though, this is a frustrating topic on both ends; both from the
end of people needing the info, and those of us who try, but don't get it
quite right. we both tend to snap when we get frustrated. thanks to You
and Bruce for reminding us of that.
Chip
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard G Applegate [mailto:richard.applegate@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 2:20 PM
To: gw-scripting@gwmicro.com
Subject: RE: Window-Eyes Script Writing
Keith:
If I might suggest:
1. When one is asking for assistance one should never make attacks upon
those who are trying to offer such assistance. I dare say the fellow you
are attacking is probably much more knowledgeable of Window-Eyes and the
Visual Basic scripting language than either you or I. If you don't find
some of his suggestions to be helpful, you might indicate that in a more
diplomatic fashion as another person on the list has done. I too have a
vague understanding of the concepts of VBS and the Window-Eyes object model
as well as HTML and C++. Unfortunately, I have also been unable to
translate my vague understanding into Window-Eyes scripting abilities. This
is not due to the idiocy or stupidity of someone else's offerings; it is
because I haven't spent the time, effort and/or money required to learn the
material.
2. The members on this list are offering their knowledge voluntarily. Your
statement that someone needs to do this or that is false. Those who have a
working or better knowledge of VBS and Window-Eyes will suffer no ill
effects if you are unable to translate their offerings into useable
information. It may be true that you need things presented in a different
manner, but that need is yours. You may find their offerings of little or
no value, but how much have you paid for the information? I for one
appreciate all of the offerings of assistance made on this topic. Not all
of them have been helpful to me, in fact none of them have turned me into a
Window-Eyes scripter, but that doesn't mean the information is of no value.
My suggestions are also at no cost. If you can't use them, don't bother
responding just delete the message.
-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Hinton [mailto:keithint1234@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:41 AM
To: gw-scripting@gwmicro.com
Subject: Re: Window-Eyes Script Writing
What is all this nonsense?
I have worked with HTML a little bit. I know XML is similar, and I've seen
some XML files.
No thanks, I refuse to read your stupid idiotic Microsoft Visual Basic
Scripting HTMl webpage tutorial.
I am not stupid enough to read a stuipd dumb-idiotic document like that.
If the tutorial is not specific to Window-Eyes, and VB scripting, than I am
going to give up right this second, and there sin't anything that the GW
Micro staff, or anyone else can do to stop me.
I just totally refuse to read that tutorial you mentioned, so you wasted
your time in even attaching it.
Don't try to do that again.
Tom's right, and BT, you aren't.
Such a thing would totally overwelm somone like me, and it already ahs.
I agree with what Tom wrote, and not you.
Your speech example totally sucks. No offense, but maybe you need to go back
to Doug Geoffray and Aaron and have them hold your hand while they walk you
thorught he speak "Hello World!" or other such commands yourself.
I don't think that Aaron, Raul, or Doug, would make a beginner read a
tutorial that had nothing to do with Window-Eyes scripting.
What a disappointing help this list has turned out to be.
If GW Micro can't do better than that witht he resources it provides, than
what is the point in me trying to learn when the very users I'm trying to
asks questions of decide to givem e links that I consider pointless?
I don't use Outlook express, and work primarily with web-based emails.
I refuse to go saving HTML files onto my hard-drive.
No offense, but if you want to learn Window-Eyes scripting, I would think
that Chip Orenges examples in the wiki on part two are at least more
practical than the Microsoft VBScripting refference.
Unless this can be recitifiedd and I can really get a clear look at how
VBScript relates to Window-Eyes only, than you folks on this list (and Tom
this isn't about you or chip) it's your other friend who keeps posting
useless examples and links of refference to this list) has turned me off
completeyl from even attempting a simpol script.
All I can do with any confidence is something like Speak "Hello World!"
That is an easy script. Anyone could do that one without even reffernecing
Chip Orenges wiki article.
I understand Doug Geoffrays example of VB script, I have an idea of how
methods and propertys work.
What I want is some tutorial or examples that teaches a user VBScript, but
specifically teaches you VBScript with WIndow-Eyes as the soul topic.
Sorry, btu somsone on this list still needs to put the time and efort into
to creating one.
I'll help if I can, but that's my opinion.
I have no interest in doing VBScript for anything but Window-Eyes itself, no
HTML, no XML unless it relates to Window-Eyes alone.
I thoguht that some of the examples when learning the jAWS scripting
language for instance way back with JAWS3.7 well..the manual was a bit too
detailed. And the examples in the manual flew over my head. I reached a
point where I just couldn't keep learning.
Not that I didn't try, but once I began leeping into variables and other
such things, the manual only got more involved, not less.
Tutorials should not be super super complex to a beginner.
A tutorial for the beginner is what I am after.
Specifically dedicated to my point, teaching the beginner through practical
examples and stuf how to script with Window-Eyes.
VB Script is something I can learn by reading official microsoft manuals,
etc. I don't need a tutorial to do that.
I can always reffernece Tom's examples on this thread, Chips writing, look
at script code, and such, replay the only script recordings I have.
As for attending GW Micro training classes, I've looked at the prices.
I don't have a job at the moment, and own't go into details, here, but could
never aford Window-Eyes training classes nor the phone training.
I don't make over 600 dollars a month and am on a fixed income for those who
really want the point blank truth.
I can't attend a Window-Eyes training class.
I work a little easier with one-on-one personally-and this has held true
thorughout my entire life. Not simply computer discussions. :) If any of you
on this list are interested on adding me to Skype, my Skype ID is
skypedude1234 Thanks for attaching what I consider to be point blank useless
material IMO.
Unless it again, is dedicated to Window-Eyes and how VB script works with
Window-Eyes so that you can then write a VBS script for Window-Eyes that
will make an application work, then..who knows.
...well
, I've ran out of stuff to rant about.
Better quit before I enter chapter Nindy of the rant world.
On 8/21/10, Tom Kingston wrote:
Well, I haven't a clue as to how I gave the impression I wanted to
learn scripting outside of Window-Eyes within a thread on Window-Eyes
script writing. But so be it. These things happen.
My point is still that this is all only making things much more
bewildering
to anyone interested in scripting Window-Eyes. I didn't read through
your entire WSC code as I don't see the point. All the speech
parameters such
as
pitch, rate, volume, etc. can be changed using the Window-Eyes object
model.
And we're able to control the synthesizer the user is using rather
than seeing what SAPI voices are on their machine. I guess we've
somehow landed in an apples an oranges orchard here. But that's fine.
Obviously you're trying to help, and I appreciate it.
I just think the bottom line is that the only true incentive to get
folks writing Window-Eyes scripts is going to be a comprehensivefocusing
tutorial
strictly on just that rather than tossing endless abstract resources
at them. But I also fully realize that creating such will be an
enormous undertaking. The problem is that the resources out there,
while virtually endless, are a total hit or miss when it comes to what
someone who just wants to script Window-Eyes needs. And how is the
beginner suppose to know what he or she needs and what they don't, not
to mention what's going to
be
literally a waste of time. This is the quandary scripting presents.
It's akin to having the ultimate toolbox handed to you within which
are the
tools
to build anything you desire. But what do you do with a toolbox full
of tools you don't know how to use and haven't a clue as to how to
build anything? It's called the catch-22 toolbox.
Well, I guess we've run this dry. At least for today. Again, Iand
recognize
appreciate your good intentions, Bruce. So thanks for taking the timeadd
to
your input.
Regards,
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "BT"
To:
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: Window-Eyes Script Writing
Hi Tom,
Only posted that method is because you wanted to know scripting
outsideof Windoweyes, at least I thought that.
Your complaint is exactly what I complained about months ago whenI joined the listing.
So, instead of reading what they had I learned .VBS code, wrote my
own speech as posted in previous emails.
This speech package is to allow speech without worrying aboutWindoweyes, for I found the same issues as you have and sincerelythe
hopetutorial Chip is writing gets to be more in depth so no one has tojump
toMicrosoft or any where else.
The Methods you point out for windoweyes is true. The onlydifference is I use an instanced labeled as C and the dot after it is
all the speech methods used in speech; listed in the methods listinside the class.
GrantedWindoweyes uses only the word speech, but that is for speaking only.
So, I posted the actual SAPI format and how to construct all voice
parms. It is for both SAPI 4 and SAPI 5 and those 2 can be the sameif percentages is used for both as you will see in some of the methods.
It would be nice to have a nice tutorial that goes from basic
script writing all the way into Windoweyes. I just gave you anotherapproach to learn some of the scripts, which still requires the
formats in the Windoweyes version.
What Chip last wrote is an improvement of what existed severalmonths ago. So, I guess it is work in progress.
Sorry about not knowing about your knowledge, just did not know...
Also, I never got a copy of the last 2 posts I made, probablybecause of the attachment.
Sincerely
Bruce
I should also clarify for anyone interested in learning to scriptthat this TTS example has absolutely nothing to do with Window-Eyes
scripting. Read it and be intimidated if you wish. Then realize thatin order to make Window-Eyes speak you do nothing more than use ain
Speak command, such asthe following.
Speak "Hello world!"
In a script you're writing for Window-Eyes, that's it. Use the Speakcommand to tell Window-Eyes what to speak and you're done. The method
outlined below is for a stand-alone script to run independent ofWindow-Eyes by using
theWindows scripting host. Again, this has absolutely nothing to do withscripting Window-Eyes.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Kingston"To:
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:19 PMSubject: Re: Window-Eyes Script Writing
Thanks for the lesson, but I've been programming for 20 years. Ito
triedclarify my point in my last message. I apologize if my previousmessage was so misleading.
Regards,Tom
--
Regards, --Keith
Skype: skypedude1234
MSN Messenger: keithint37@hotmail.com
Yahoo/AIM/Twitter: keithint1234
Facebook: http://facebook.com/keith.hinton1
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