From:

 Chip Orange

Subject:

 RE: Window-Eyes Script Writing

Date:

 Sun, Aug 22, 2010 1:13:02 pm

Hi Jennifer,

please have a read of part 1 of "so you want to write a script", on the GW
wiki at http://gwmicro.com/wiki

it does list for you scripts which help you write other scripts. most of
these help you get the low-level details which you will need for the
application which you are trying to write a script for, but some of them,
such as Jamal's learning to script package, also make an effort to do some
tutoring. these are all mentioned in the wiki article.

the main reason I'm referring you there, and not just answering your
questions, is to both get others there as well, and because hopefully,
constantly better answers to these and other questions will be appearing
there. you'll need to check-in with the wiki once in a while to see what's
new.

you can actually get it to email you when new articles are added, and if you
have a favorite article or two, which you'd like to know when they are
improved, you can sign up to be notified by email article by article.

I am not discouraging you from asking questions here; and I hope if your
questions aren't answered in the wiki you will come back here and say so and
ask away. we'd also appreciate feedback from those who try the wiki and
can't find what they need.

good luck,

Chip


-----Original Message-----
From: Jennifer Palmer [mailto:jennipalmer@socket.net]
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:45 PM
To: gw-scripting@gwmicro.com
Subject: Re: Window-Eyes Script Writing

I thought about making a script for ice chat because its a free irc client.
mainly i just want it to read incoming text. I just dont have the brain
power today or i would get started on it. what programs would i need to
install to write these? any w.e scripts i should install?
I am so lost on how to get started. of course i would make the script
available after i tested it a lot.
I dont know how ice chat works but i plan on looking at stuff to see if it
has its own scripting language.
I may also email them or contact them as well to explain what i would like
to do and see if they would be willing to help.
I figure ask the program's author maybe they will work with people and help
them out if they can.

Have a good day and thanks for reading my ramblings.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Clower"
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: Window-Eyes Script Writing

Until someone does have the time and inclination to create a guide that
teaches both VBScript and the Window-Eyes scripting model, allow me to

offer up the following ideas for getting started:

1. When going through any existing VBScript guides, don't focus on
anything to do with web pages. Look specifically at how variables are

declared, how decisions are made, looping structures, and function and
subroutine definition. This info carries across all applications of

VBScript.

2. Read the introductory Window-Eyes scripting material available in the
script manual itself. While not comprehensive, it will familiarize you

with the way Window-Eyes handles scripts, introduce you to the typical
"hello world" example, explain object-oriented programming and

event-driven execution, etc.

3. Study someone else's code. Nearly all of the publically available
Window-Eyes scripts include their source. In most cases, the source

includes comments that explain what's happening.

HTH.
Steve

On 8/22/2010 9:17 AM, Doug Lee wrote:

The way I see it, scripting for Window-Eyes consists of the following
elements, and the bulk of the unfortunate debate in this thread

centers around which elements should be taught first. I give this
list in no particular order:

1. The VBScript language itself, for which Microsoft provides info.

2. The Window-Eyes object model, for which GW Micro provides info.

3. The XML syntax as used for making dialogs.

4. Window-Eyes user expectations as to what Window-Eyes should do in

various situations, which guides the scripter in deciding what and how
to script Window-Eyes to behave.

5. General concepts of accessibility, which I include here because

not all VBScript programmers will naturally know these.

6. Common Window-Eyes scripting practices, which really amount to
common ways of handling all of the above.

I believe the GW Micro wiki was created to provide a place to

centralize information in all of these categories, plus any I might
have missed, as long as they relate to Window-Eyes scripting. As

such, the idea of creating tutorials, which I think was the suggestion
that started this discussion, would best be done by adding wiki pages

there. Any of us can do this, given sufficient time and inclination.

In choosing to use a common language rather than a home-grown one, GW
Micro has in effect invited seasoned programmers to write scripts.

This means we will have VBScript experts that must learn
accessibility, alongside accessibility experts that must learn

VBScript. These are very different points of view, certain to cause
widely differing preferences on how and in what order to learn

Window-Eyes scripting. It is not wrong for one person to want to
learn VBScript before the Window-Eyes object model, another to prefer

to absorb the Window-Eyes object model and then learn the VBScript
language in more depth, and yet another to prefer to learn Window-Eyes

itself before tackling any of those. Not wrong, I say, and not worthy
of attack either.

On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 04:40:32AM -0700, Keith Hinton wrote:

What is all this nonsense?
I have worked with HTML a little bit. I know XML is similar, and I've

seen some XML files.
No thanks, I refuse to read your stupid idiotic Microsoft Visual Basic

Scripting HTMl webpage tutorial.
I am not stupid enough to read a stuipd dumb-idiotic document like that.

If the tutorial is not specific to Window-Eyes, and VB scripting, than
I am going to give up right this second, and there sin't anything that

the GW Micro staff, or anyone else can do to stop me.
I just totally refuse to read that tutorial you mentioned, so you

wasted your time in even attaching it.
Don't try to do that again.

Tom's right, and BT, you aren't.
Such a thing would totally overwelm somone like me, and it already ahs.

I agree with what Tom wrote, and not you.
Your speech example totally sucks. No offense, but maybe you need to

go back to Doug Geoffray and Aaron and have them hold your hand while
they walk you thorught he speak "Hello World!" or other such commands

yourself.
I don't think that Aaron, Raul, or Doug, would make a beginner read a

tutorial that had nothing to do with Window-Eyes scripting.
What a disappointing help this list has turned out to be.

If GW Micro can't do better than that witht he resources it provides,
than what is the point in me trying to learn when the very users I'm

trying to asks questions of decide to givem e links that I consider
pointless?

I don't use Outlook express, and work primarily with web-based emails.
I refuse to go saving HTML files onto my hard-drive.

No offense, but if you want to learn Window-Eyes scripting, I would
think that Chip Orenges examples in the wiki on part two are at least

more practical than the Microsoft VBScripting refference.
Unless this can be recitifiedd and I can really get a clear look at

how VBScript relates to Window-Eyes only, than you folks on this list
(and Tom this isn't about you or chip) it's your other friend who

keeps posting useless examples and links of refference to this list)
has turned me off completeyl from even attempting a simpol script.

All I can do with any confidence is something like
Speak "Hello World!"

That is an easy script. Anyone could do that one without even
reffernecing Chip Orenges wiki article.

I understand Doug Geoffrays example of VB script, I have an idea of
how methods and propertys work.

What I want is some tutorial or examples that teaches a user VBScript,
but specifically teaches you VBScript with WIndow-Eyes as the soul

topic.
Sorry, btu somsone on this list still needs to put the time and efort

into to creating one.
I'll help if I can, but that's my opinion.

I have no interest in doing VBScript for anything but Window-Eyes
itself, no HTML, no XML unless it relates to Window-Eyes alone.

I thoguht that some of the examples when learning the jAWS scripting
language for instance way back with JAWS3.7 well..the manual was a bit

too detailed. And the examples in the manual flew over my head. I
reached a point where I just couldn't keep learning.

Not that I didn't try, but once I began leeping into variables and
other such things, the manual only got more involved, not less.

Tutorials should not be super super complex to a beginner.
A tutorial for the beginner is what I am after.

Specifically dedicated to my point, teaching the beginner through
practical examples and stuf how to script with Window-Eyes.

VB Script is something I can learn by reading official microsoft
manuals, etc. I don't need a tutorial to do that.

I can always reffernece Tom's examples on this thread, Chips writing,
look at script code, and such, replay the only script recordings I

have.
As for attending GW Micro training classes, I've looked at the prices.

I don't have a job at the moment, and own't go into details, here, but
could never aford Window-Eyes training classes nor the phone training.

I don't make over 600 dollars a month and am on a fixed income for
those who really want the point blank truth.

I can't attend a Window-Eyes training class.
I work a little easier with one-on-one personally-and this has held

true thorughout my entire life. Not simply computer discussions. :)
If any of you on this list are interested on adding me to Skype, my

Skype ID is skypedude1234
Thanks for attaching what I consider to be point blank useless material

IMO.
Unless it again, is dedicated to Window-Eyes and how VB script works

with Window-Eyes so that you can then write a VBS script for
Window-Eyes that will make an application work, then..who knows.

..well
, I've ran out of stuff to rant about.

Better quit before I enter chapter Nindy of the rant world.

On 8/21/10, Tom Kingston wrote:

Well, I haven't a clue as to how I gave the impression I wanted to learn
scripting outside of Window-Eyes within a thread on Window-Eyes script

writing. But so be it. These things happen.

My point is still that this is all only making things much more
bewildering

to anyone interested in scripting Window-Eyes. I didn't read through
your

entire WSC code as I don't see the point. All the speech parameters such

as

pitch, rate, volume, etc. can be changed using the Window-Eyes object

model.
And we're able to control the synthesizer the user is using rather than

seeing what SAPI voices are on their machine. I guess we've somehow
landed

in an apples an oranges orchard here. But that's fine. Obviously you're
trying to help, and I appreciate it.

I just think the bottom line is that the only true incentive to get

folks
writing Window-Eyes scripts is going to be a comprehensive tutorial

focusing
strictly on just that rather than tossing endless abstract resources at

them. But I also fully realize that creating such will be an enormous
undertaking. The problem is that the resources out there, while

virtually
endless, are a total hit or miss when it comes to what someone who just

wants to script Window-Eyes needs. And how is the beginner suppose to
know

what he or she needs and what they don't, not to mention what's going to

be

literally a waste of time. This is the quandary scripting presents. It's

akin to having the ultimate toolbox handed to you within which are the
tools

to build anything you desire. But what do you do with a toolbox full of
tools you don't know how to use and haven't a clue as to how to build

anything? It's called the catch-22 toolbox.

Well, I guess we've run this dry. At least for today. Again, I recognize

and

appreciate your good intentions, Bruce. So thanks for taking the time to

add

your input.

Regards,

Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: "BT"

To:
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:45 PM

Subject: Re: Window-Eyes Script Writing

Hi Tom,

Only posted that method is because you wanted to know scripting
outside

of Windoweyes, at least I thought that.

Your complaint is exactly what I complained about months ago when I
joined the listing.

So, instead of reading what they had I learned .VBS code, wrote my

own
speech as posted in previous emails.

This speech package is to allow speech without worrying about

Windoweyes, for I found the same issues as you have and sincerely hope
the

tutorial Chip is writing gets to be more in depth so no one has to jump

to

Microsoft or any where else.

The Methods you point out for windoweyes is true. The only
difference

is
I use an instanced labeled as C and the dot after it is all the speech

methods used in speech; listed in the methods list inside the class.
Granted

Windoweyes uses only the word speech, but that is for speaking only.

So, I posted the actual SAPI format and how to construct all voice
parms. It is for both SAPI 4 and SAPI 5 and those 2 can be the same if

percentages is used for both as you will see in some of the methods.

It would be nice to have a nice tutorial that goes from basic
script

writing all the way into Windoweyes. I just gave you another approach
to

learn some of the scripts, which still requires the formats in the
Windoweyes version.

What Chip last wrote is an improvement of what existed several

months
ago. So, I guess it is work in progress.

Sorry about not knowing about your knowledge, just did not know...

Also, I never got a copy of the last 2 posts I made, probably
because

of
the attachment.

Sincerely

Bruce

I should also clarify for anyone interested in learning to script that
this

TTS example has absolutely nothing to do with Window-Eyes scripting.
Read

it
and be intimidated if you wish. Then realize that in order to make

Window-Eyes speak you do nothing more than use a Speak command, such as

in

the following.

Speak "Hello world!"

In a script you're writing for Window-Eyes, that's it. Use the Speak
command

to tell Window-Eyes what to speak and you're done. The method outlined
below

is for a stand-alone script to run independent of Window-Eyes by using
the

Windows scripting host. Again, this has absolutely nothing to do with
scripting Window-Eyes.

Tom

----- Original Message -----

From: "Tom Kingston"
To:

Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: Window-Eyes Script Writing

Thanks for the lesson, but I've been programming for 20 years. I tried

to

clarify my point in my last message. I apologize if my previous

message

was so misleading.

Regards,

Tom