From:

 Vaughan Dodd

Subject:

 RE: window-eyes and dragon Naturally Speaking

Date:

 Mon, Aug 14, 2006 5:29:35 pm

I do accept this, but these are things other than blindness which
strengthen the case for alternative input. I work in the field, an d as it
happens, i've got two clients that I am seeing over the next couple of days
for whom DNS is a realistic option, with the necessary screen reader and
the J-Say itnerface. In both instances, characteristics other than sight
loss are influencing the solutions being considered.


Vaughan.

Keep in mind that the vast majority of blind persons are older, and may
have conditions such as arthritis and/or peripheral neuropathy that

would affect ability to use a keyboard, but these people may still need
or want to use a PC. Also, there are blind people of working age who

suffer with such conditions as rheumatoid arthritis, not to mention
trauma victims who may have sustained hand or arm amputations.

Andy

-----Original Message-----
From: Vaughan Dodd [mailto:vdodd@xtra.co.nz]

Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 12:49 PM
To: Marilyn Dorn; Post to GW-Info List

Subject: RE: window-eyes and dragon Naturally Speaking

I agree with all of this, and just want to ad that the number of
programmes supported by J-Say is limited. You can email using Outlook

(for instance) but not Eudora. You can go to the web via Internet
Explorer, but not Firefox. Perhaps just a case of developmental

priorities.

Add to the cost considerations the need for a high performance pc so I
think the need for such a package needs to be pressing indeed, and when

looking at the old chestnut of external funding, blindness of itself
cannot usually justify such expense, particularly when in most

instances, good keyboard skills give the user much greater flexibility
to operate the computer in whichever way they wish.

Any links with Window-Eyes would have to be much less cost, and this

could restrict development of supported mainstream applications.

Vaughan.

At 06:26 a.m. 15/08/2006, Marilyn Dorn wrote:

>Hi, gang!
>

>If GW Micro would seriously like to consider getting Dragon programs
and

>WE to work together, perhaps the company who makes J-Say could develop
the

>same thing but to work with WE. They could call it WE-Say. Of course,
I

>don't know if the basics are the same for WE as for JFW as far as how
the

>third party software would work, but it's not something that WE would
>incorporate into itself. Be aware, however, for those who don't

already
>know the score for J-Say, Dragon, and Jaws, you need all 3 programs.

This
>adds up to some serious money. The other drawback is that, if you

upgrade
>any 1 of the 3, you have to upgrade the rest at the same time.

>
>Personally, I find that Dragon and speech work so slowly together that

>it's not worth the effort for me to use. However, if I needed it
because

>of restrictions to my ability to use a keyboard, or if I had a learning

>disability that gave me a lot of trouble writing and/or spelling, it
could

>be a great advantage. In those cases, speed would be much less of a
>concern. I'd really hate to have to use Jaws just because I needed

>dictation software. My husband has Jaws and J-Say and Dragon Naturally

>Speaking Pro. Each time I need to use his computer with Jaws on it, it

>grates on my nerves. I love my WindowEyes.
>

>Just my opinion...
>

>TTFN,
>Marilyn

>
>At 12:58 AM 8/14/2006, you wrote:

>>Hi Ray and list.
>>

>>A couple of points: training of DNS is stil required - there is an
>>element of hyperbole here, but I to believe that less time is required

to
>>get a basic training completed.

>>
>>I do agree that perhaps GW could look at DNS, as there are blind

people
>>who just do not like the keyboard, or perhaps more importantly, have

>>reasons for not being able to use the keyboard: multiple sclerosis for

>>instance or diabetes where fingers have been amputated.
>>

>>Still: the best aproach from my standpoint is some third party
>>partnership so that GW can still concentrate on its core activities.

>>
>>

>>Vaughan.
>>

>>
>>>Kevin's experience trying to use Dragon with W-E is interesting, and

I'm not
>>>surprised people are beginning to ask about this again here. It

seems the
>>>latest version of Dragon now works without prior training although

there is
>>>a facility to improve on its out of the box accuracy.

>>>
>>>I do wonder therefore if GW isn't going to have to look at this and

maybe
>>>bring on more advanced set file features or even a scripting

language, or
>>>support for one. I wonder if the users of Auto Hotkey have managed

to get
>>>Window-Eyes to work with DNS?

>>>
>>>I've never quite seen myself the attraction of being able to speak to

your
>>>computer as I am a pretty good keyboardist. Still, I suppose there

are
>>>situations where you would prefer to have both hands free, maybe

during
>>>transcription or some audio work. Even with audio work, I'd go a

long way
>>>to avoid the expense of J-Say as, if Ill I wanted to do was start

recording,
>>>pause and that sort of thing, then you'd think a footswitch would be

a more
>>>economical solution. Either that, or maybe utilise the facilities in

the
>>>APH recorder package.

>>>
>>>I might say that my focus on cost is always more pressing here in the

UK as
>>>JfW users pay a whacking import charge for JFW, and with that and the

cost
>>>of J-Say - a UK product - few of us over here will fork out for this,

>>>outside of those who successfully put an argument for it under UK
Access to

>>>Work.
>>>

>>>Maybe GW can come up with a more economic solution? I recall in the
days of

>>>Vocal-Eyes Doug actually wrote a version of V-E that supported
dragon. I

>>>somehow don't think GW is going to repeat that solution!
>>>

>>> From Ray
>>>I can be contacted off-list at:

>>>mailto:ray-48@beeb.net
>>>

>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----

>>>From: Kevin Huber [mailto:khuber@sympatico.ca]
>>>Sent: 13 August 2006 6:04PM

>>>
>>>

>>>Hi:
>>>A couple of years ago I tried to develop setfiles for Dragon

Naturally
>>>Speaking. They worked to a degree but not nearly as well as JawBone

or JSay
>>>do with JAWS.

>>>First, I used the Laptop Keyboard Layout in order to allow the arrow
keys on

>>>the numberpad function as they would in a non-screen reader
environment. If

>>>I remember right, that will allow voice commands such as "move up 1",
"move

>>>down 1", Move right 1" or "move left 1" to work as they should and
allow the

>>>line or character on which the cursor landed to be spoken. I can't
remember

>>>the details since it has been so long, but I used the DNS macro
system to

>>>create other macros.
>>>I hope this might be a starting point for someone who is interested

in
>>>making DNS work with Window-eyes.

>>>Kevin Huber
>>>

>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Vaughan Dodd"

>>>To: "Josh" ;
>>>Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 3:52 AM

>>>Subject: Re: window-eyes 5.5 and dragon dictate pro/standard
>>>

>>>
>>> > It is my understanding that Window-Eyes does not work well with

Dragon.
>>> > It is true that it does work with Jaws, but this is via a third

party
>>> > application called J-Say - not developed by Freedom scientific.

It would
>>> > be great if a similar concept could be developed for Window-Eyes,

but I
>>> > think some fundamental misunderstandings exist here. J-Say was

developed
>>> > because people became aware that not every blind person can use

the
>>> > keyboard. So: dictating to the computer, and getting synthetic

speech
>>> > output from the same computer could be beneficial to some blind

people.
>>> >

>>> > I personally do not think that GW should move away from its
specialty

>>> area
>>> > of best screen access to computers for blind people, but as said

>>> before -
>>> > someone could offer an alternative to J-Say. It would be great if

you
>>> > could have speech input coupled with the best screen reader

providing
>>> > output so that there could be real choice for people who cannot

use the
>>> > keyboard.

>>> >
>>> >

>>> > Vaughan.
>>> >

>>> >
>>> >

>>> > At 03:37 p.m. 13/08/2006, Josh wrote:
>>> >>Hi,

>>> >>
>>> >>How well does window-eyes 5.5 work with dragon naturally speaking

8? Can
>>> >>you successfully complete the training process using window eyes

and
>>> >>dictate documents into your computer?

>>> >>According to what I heard the only way to use dragon is through
jaws.

>>> >>
>>> >>Josh

>>> >>
>>> >>Josh

>>> >>
>>> >>skype: jkenn337

>>> >>email: jkenn337@kutztown.edu
>>> >>aol: kutztownstudent

>>> >>msn messenger: kenn6498ku@hotmail.com
>>> >>

>>>
>>>

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>>

>>Email vdodd@xtra.co.nz
>>Phone +64 9 278 4909

>>Mobile +21 784 856
>>

>>
>>

>>
>>If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original

>>sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and
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>>
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message.

>
>

>If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original
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>your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending
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>
>If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to

>listserv@gwmicro.com and include leave gw-info in the body of the
message.

Email vdodd@xtra.co.nz

Phone +64 9 278 4909
Mobile +21 784 856

If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original
sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and

your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending
your message to gw-info@gwmicro.com so the entire list will receive it.

If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to

listserv@gwmicro.com and include leave gw-info in the body
of the message.

If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original

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Email vdodd@xtra.co.nz
Phone +64 9 278 4909
Mobile +21 784 856




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