From:

 Ray's Home

Subject:

 RE: window-eyes and dragon Naturally Speaking

Date:

 Mon, Aug 14, 2006 5:04:48 pm

Yes Vaughn, you sum it up well. Getting Dragon Naturally must be hard work
arguing for considering the expense of the solution currently on offer. I
hadn't looked into J-Say enough to know its limitations re. programs it will
work with, but looks as if its focus is truly on MS apps, which given the
development work involved, doesnt surprise me.

I hadn't forgotten the needs of those with multiple impairments and
certainly those who have hand manipulation problems as well as visual
impairment would be the obvious ones to benefit.

From Ray
I can be contacted off-list at:
mailto:ray-48@beeb.net


-----Original Message-----
From: Vaughan Dodd [mailto:vdodd@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: 14 August 2006 8:49PM
To: Marilyn Dorn; Post to GW-Info List
Subject: RE: window-eyes and dragon Naturally Speaking


I agree with all of this, and just want to ad that the number of programmes
supported by J-Say is limited. You can email using Outlook (for instance)
but not Eudora. You can go to the web via Internet Explorer, but not
Firefox. Perhaps just a case of developmental priorities.

Add to the cost considerations the need for a high performance pc so I
think the need for such a package needs to be pressing indeed, and when
looking at the old chestnut of external funding, blindness of itself cannot
usually justify such expense, particularly when in most instances, good
keyboard skills give the user much greater flexibility to operate the
computer in whichever way they wish.

Any links with Window-Eyes would have to be much less cost, and this could
restrict development of supported mainstream applications.


Vaughan.

At 06:26 a.m. 15/08/2006, Marilyn Dorn wrote:

Hi, gang!

If GW Micro would seriously like to consider getting Dragon programs and
WE to work together, perhaps the company who makes J-Say could develop the

same thing but to work with WE. They could call it WE-Say. Of course, I
don't know if the basics are the same for WE as for JFW as far as how the

third party software would work, but it's not something that WE would
incorporate into itself. Be aware, however, for those who don't already

know the score for J-Say, Dragon, and Jaws, you need all 3 programs. This
adds up to some serious money. The other drawback is that, if you upgrade

any 1 of the 3, you have to upgrade the rest at the same time.

Personally, I find that Dragon and speech work so slowly together that
it's not worth the effort for me to use. However, if I needed it because

of restrictions to my ability to use a keyboard, or if I had a learning
disability that gave me a lot of trouble writing and/or spelling, it could

be a great advantage. In those cases, speed would be much less of a
concern. I'd really hate to have to use Jaws just because I needed

dictation software. My husband has Jaws and J-Say and Dragon Naturally
Speaking Pro. Each time I need to use his computer with Jaws on it, it

grates on my nerves. I love my WindowEyes.

Just my opinion...

TTFN,
Marilyn

At 12:58 AM 8/14/2006, you wrote:

Hi Ray and list.

A couple of points: training of DNS is stil required - there is an

element of hyperbole here, but I to believe that less time is required to
get a basic training completed.

I do agree that perhaps GW could look at DNS, as there are blind people

who just do not like the keyboard, or perhaps more importantly, have
reasons for not being able to use the keyboard: multiple sclerosis for

instance or diabetes where fingers have been amputated.

Still: the best aproach from my standpoint is some third party
partnership so that GW can still concentrate on its core activities.

Vaughan.

Kevin's experience trying to use Dragon with W-E is interesting, and I'm
not

surprised people are beginning to ask about this again here. It seems
the

latest version of Dragon now works without prior training although there
is

a facility to improve on its out of the box accuracy.

I do wonder therefore if GW isn't going to have to look at this and maybe
bring on more advanced set file features or even a scripting language, or

support for one. I wonder if the users of Auto Hotkey have managed to
get

Window-Eyes to work with DNS?

I've never quite seen myself the attraction of being able to speak to
your

computer as I am a pretty good keyboardist. Still, I suppose there are

situations where you would prefer to have both hands free, maybe during

transcription or some audio work. Even with audio work, I'd go a long
way

to avoid the expense of J-Say as, if Ill I wanted to do was start
recording,

pause and that sort of thing, then you'd think a footswitch would be a
more

economical solution. Either that, or maybe utilise the facilities in the

APH recorder package.

I might say that my focus on cost is always more pressing here in the UK

as

JfW users pay a whacking import charge for JFW, and with that and the
cost

of J-Say - a UK product - few of us over here will fork out for this,

outside of those who successfully put an argument for it under UK Access
to

Work.

Maybe GW can come up with a more economic solution? I recall in the days
of

Vocal-Eyes Doug actually wrote a version of V-E that supported dragon. I

somehow don't think GW is going to repeat that solution!

From Ray

I can be contacted off-list at:
mailto:ray-48@beeb.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Huber [mailto:khuber@sympatico.ca]

Sent: 13 August 2006 6:04PM

Hi:

A couple of years ago I tried to develop setfiles for Dragon Naturally
Speaking. They worked to a degree but not nearly as well as JawBone or

JSay

do with JAWS.

First, I used the Laptop Keyboard Layout in order to allow the arrow keys
on

the numberpad function as they would in a non-screen reader environment.
If

I remember right, that will allow voice commands such as "move up 1",
"move

down 1", Move right 1" or "move left 1" to work as they should and allow
the

line or character on which the cursor landed to be spoken. I can't
remember

the details since it has been so long, but I used the DNS macro system to

create other macros.

I hope this might be a starting point for someone who is interested in
making DNS work with Window-eyes.

Kevin Huber

----- Original Message -----
From: "Vaughan Dodd"

To: "Josh" ;
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 3:52 AM

Subject: Re: window-eyes 5.5 and dragon dictate pro/standard

> It is my understanding that Window-Eyes does not work well with

Dragon.

> It is true that it does work with Jaws, but this is via a third party

> application called J-Say - not developed by Freedom scientific. It
would

> be great if a similar concept could be developed for Window-Eyes, but
I

> think some fundamental misunderstandings exist here. J-Say was
developed

> because people became aware that not every blind person can use the

> keyboard. So: dictating to the computer, and getting synthetic speech

> output from the same computer could be beneficial to some blind
people.

>

> I personally do not think that GW should move away from its specialty

area
> of best screen access to computers for blind people, but as said

before -
> someone could offer an alternative to J-Say. It would be great if you

> could have speech input coupled with the best screen reader providing
> output so that there could be real choice for people who cannot use

the

> keyboard.

>

>
> Vaughan.

>
>

>
> At 03:37 p.m. 13/08/2006, Josh wrote:

>>Hi,
>>

>>How well does window-eyes 5.5 work with dragon naturally speaking 8?
Can

>>you successfully complete the training process using window eyes and

>>dictate documents into your computer?

>>According to what I heard the only way to use dragon is through jaws.
>>

>>Josh
>>

>>Josh
>>

>>skype: jkenn337
>>email: jkenn337@kutztown.edu

>>aol: kutztownstudent
>>msn messenger: kenn6498ku@hotmail.com

>>

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