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From:
"George B" <gbmagoo@comcast.net>Subject:
RE: I feel like a fool for asking this, but what does Control Insert F do?Date:
Thu, May 3, 2012 10:26:56 pmNow your all fools for dragging this on and on
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Katherine Moss [mailto:Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 18:33
> To: Jim Grimsby JR.
> Cc: gw-info@gwmicro.com
> Subject: RE: I feel like a fool for asking this, but what does Control
> Insert F do?
>
> I see what you say about development environments, but most of the
> time, from whatever I have seen from Visual Studio, most of the auto-
> generated controls are labeled. But yeah, you're right. We really
> need to, as a community, put up something that will hopefully attract
> the attention of developers (I favor .NET devs more so simply because
> I'm on my way to becoming one), that will alert them to these things.
> I've already put up a demo showing the inaccessibility of the newest
> TFS (Team Foundation Server) beta. I was using JAWS, but that matters
> not right now because WE behaves in the same fashion. I'll say,
> running that with a screen reader's one nasty experience. But anyway,
> if anybody would like to, I'd love some more bloggers on my web site so
> that I can increase my SEO rank and so that we can form a bit more of a
> community. I have enough categories up there for anybody to blog about
> something interesting, but the top one and the most important if I
> might say, is accessibility on Windows and on Mac/Apple for anybody
> that uses that. I believe too that we have to begin with the open
> source community and ease those who don't know crap about accessibility
> into learning it. My thoughts are that if the open source community
> sees us, then commercial venders (especially those who use VS 2010 and
> the .NET environment) will follow suit and begin to care more about us
> realizing that with accessibility to more people, their profits will go
> up. If you want to see my video, then go to
> www.youtube.com/thechromebuster.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Grimsby JR. [mailto:jgrimsby@roadrunner.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 9:17 PM
> To: Katherine Moss
> Cc: gw-info@gwmicro.com
> Subject: RE: I feel like a fool for asking this, but what does Control
> Insert F do?
>
> No it has to do with how the programmer has desided to implement the
> ctrl.
> Has nothing to do at all with UIA or MSAA. Basicly what UIA and MSAA
> does is inform the screen access voice access software what ever that
> this is a button this is the state of the button name value etc. what
> the default keyboard action is is up to the designer of the ctrl.
> Hth
>
>
> Jim Grimsby JR.
> E-mail and Windows Live Messenger: Jgrimsby@roadrunner.com
> Skype Jim.grimsby
> Twitter Jgrimsby
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Katherine Moss [mailto:Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 5:46 PM
> To: Jim Grimsby JR. ; 'Tom Kingston'
> Cc: gw-info@gwmicro.com
> Subject: RE: I feel like a fool for asking this, but what does Control
> Insert F do?
>
> Yeah, but why is that? What does it mean when keyboard action is not
> possible on a button or Control? Is that something to do with UIA or
> something like that not being implemented correctly?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Grimsby JR. [mailto:jgrimsby@roadrunner.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 8:37 PM
> To: 'Tom Kingston'
> Cc: gw-info@gwmicro.com
> Subject: RE: I feel like a fool for asking this, but what does Control
> Insert F do?
>
> Hi,
> Ok here is one. Go to the winamp liberry now go rip a cd with it. The
> rip button is focusable in the tab order but pressing space or enter on
> it does nothing. So you have to route the mouse to the button to click
> it. Even though it is in the tab order it does not respond to keyboard
> action.
> I know of a number of programs that have this issue.
> Hth
>
>
> Jim Grimsby JR.
> E-mail and Windows Live Messenger: Jgrimsby@roadrunner.com
> Skype Jim.grimsby
> Twitter Jgrimsby
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Kingston [mailto:tom.kingston@charter.net]
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 5:23 PM
> To: gw-info@gwmicro.com
> Subject: Re: I feel like a fool for asking this, but what does Control
> Insert F do?
>
> Sorry. Guess I had Katherine's initial question in mind. And now that I
> read her question again I must admit I don't get it. I've never seen a
> control in the tab order that wouldn't respond to keyboard input. And
> if she clicked it to focus it in order to change the field name, then I
> would think it would be obvious that she needed to click it again with
> the mouse hotkey to activate it. I must be missing something here. But
> that's okay.
>
> Tom
>
>
> On 5/3/2012 8:08 PM, Jim Grimsby JR. wrote:
> > Hi,
> > This answer did not get out of control. She asked the question what
> could
> > she do if she was unable to take action on a focused control. I
> provided
> > her with directions on how to deal with said instances. Please
> > explain where my answer to this question was in error.
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> > Jim Grimsby JR.
> > E-mail and Windows Live Messenger: Jgrimsby@roadrunner.com
> > Skype Jim.grimsby
> > Twitter Jgrimsby
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tom Kingston [mailto:tom.kingston@charter.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 5:04 PM
> > To: gw-info@gwmicro.com
> > Subject: Re: I feel like a fool for asking this, but what does
> Control
> > Insert F do?
> >
> > This answer seems to have gotten a wee bit out of control.
> > Control-Insert-F is simply to assign or change a field name of a
> > control. It has no effect other than what you hear when you tab to
> it.
> > And using it again allows you to change or delete your change so that
> > it goes back to what it was. Generally it's used for controls without
> > a recognized field label, or ones that speak the wrong label. But you
> > can use it to change them to your liking as well.
> >
> > Hth,
> > Tom
> >
> >
> > On 5/3/2012 7:41 PM, Jim Grimsby JR. wrote:
> >> Generally if a focus control is not assigned to a default action
> with
> >> the keyboard such as pressing enter to press a button or pressing
> the
> >> space bar to check a check box you usually can click the mouse on
> >> that button. So you tab to the control and route the mouse pointer
> to
> >> the focus and click the left mouse button.
> >>
> >> If controls are not focusable using tab the list focus controls app
> >> is very helpful here.
> >>
> >> If you want to find a button clickly to click on it or perform some
> >> other task the hot spots app is usuefull here.
> >>
> >> Hth
> >>
> >> Jim Grimsby JR.
> >>
> >> E-mail and Windows Live Messenger: Jgrimsby@roadrunner.com
> >> <mailto:Jgrimsby@roadrunner.com>
> >>
> >> Skype Jim.grimsby
> >>
> >> Twitter Jgrimsby
> >>
> >> *From:*Katherine Moss [mailto:Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu]
> >> *Sent:* Thursday, May 03, 2012 4:35 PM
> >> *To:* Jim Grimsby JR.
> >> *Cc:* gw-info@gwmicro.com
> >> *Subject:* RE: I feel like a fool for asking this, but what does
> >> Control Insert F do?
> >>
> >> Oh nice. Well then, too bad my mentor took me off of the server he
> >> had me on. Though it kind of didn't matter anyway, since we're
> moving
> >> away from that piece of software anyhow. Now question then. Have you
> >> ever tried to use that and once the button was labeled, you weren't
> >> able to click it still? And if so, what was your next step.
> >>
> >> *From:*Jim Grimsby JR. [mailto:jgrimsby@roadrunner.com]
> >> <mailto:[mailto:jgrimsby@roadrunner.com]>
> >> *Sent:* Thursday, May 03, 2012 7:32 PM
> >> *To:* Katherine Moss
> >> *Subject:* RE: I feel like a fool for asking this, but what does
> >> Control Insert F do?
> >>
> >> It labels a feeld.
> >>
> >> So lets say you want your desktop to say pretty katherines desktop
> >> you can simply issue the command type pretty katherines desktop and
> >> the next time it gets focused window-eyes will say pretty katherines
> desktop.
> >>
> >> It is really useful for edit bboxes and buttons with no static text
> > lables.
> >>
> >> Hth
> >>
> >> Jim Grimsby JR.
> >>
> >> E-mail and Windows Live Messenger: Jgrimsby@roadrunner.com
> >> <mailto:Jgrimsby@roadrunner.com>
> >>
> >> Skype Jim.grimsby
> >>
> >> Twitter Jgrimsby
> >>
> >> *From:*Katherine Moss [mailto:Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu]
> >> <mailto:[mailto:Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu]>
> >> *Sent:* Thursday, May 03, 2012 4:19 PM
> >> *To:* gw-info@gwmicro.com<mailto:gw-info@gwmicro.com>
> >> *Subject:* I feel like a fool for asking this, but what does Control
> >> Insert F do?
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> The question is in the subject line. I know that that facility has
> >> something to do with labeling originally unlabeled text on controls
> >> and such, but what exactly is it? I just tried it while on the
> >> desktop doing nothing important, and it prompted for a field name.
> If
> >> somebody could let me know, I'd appreciate it.
> >>
> >> Katherine Moss,
> >>
> >> Administrator of the AccessCop Network, previously Raeder24.org.
> >> Visit us on the web at http://raeder24.org<http://raeder24.org/>;
> >>
> > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original
> > sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your
> > message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your
> > message to gw-info@gwmicro.com so the entire list will receive it.
> >
> > GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You
> > can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
> >
> >
> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original
> sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your
> message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your
> message to gw-info@gwmicro.com so the entire list will receive it.
>
> GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can
> manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original
> sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your
> message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your
> message to gw-info@gwmicro.com so the entire list will receive it.
>
> GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can
> manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
>
>
>
>
> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original
> sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your
> message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your
> message to gw-info@gwmicro.com so the entire list will receive it.
>
> GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can
> manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to gw-info@gwmicro.com so the entire list will receive it.
GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Katherine Moss [mailto:Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 18:33
> To: Jim Grimsby JR.
> Cc: gw-info@gwmicro.com
> Subject: RE: I feel like a fool for asking this, but what does Control
> Insert F do?
>
> I see what you say about development environments, but most of the
> time, from whatever I have seen from Visual Studio, most of the auto-
> generated controls are labeled. But yeah, you're right. We really
> need to, as a community, put up something that will hopefully attract
> the attention of developers (I favor .NET devs more so simply because
> I'm on my way to becoming one), that will alert them to these things.
> I've already put up a demo showing the inaccessibility of the newest
> TFS (Team Foundation Server) beta. I was using JAWS, but that matters
> not right now because WE behaves in the same fashion. I'll say,
> running that with a screen reader's one nasty experience. But anyway,
> if anybody would like to, I'd love some more bloggers on my web site so
> that I can increase my SEO rank and so that we can form a bit more of a
> community. I have enough categories up there for anybody to blog about
> something interesting, but the top one and the most important if I
> might say, is accessibility on Windows and on Mac/Apple for anybody
> that uses that. I believe too that we have to begin with the open
> source community and ease those who don't know crap about accessibility
> into learning it. My thoughts are that if the open source community
> sees us, then commercial venders (especially those who use VS 2010 and
> the .NET environment) will follow suit and begin to care more about us
> realizing that with accessibility to more people, their profits will go
> up. If you want to see my video, then go to
> www.youtube.com/thechromebuster.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Grimsby JR. [mailto:jgrimsby@roadrunner.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 9:17 PM
> To: Katherine Moss
> Cc: gw-info@gwmicro.com
> Subject: RE: I feel like a fool for asking this, but what does Control
> Insert F do?
>
> No it has to do with how the programmer has desided to implement the
> ctrl.
> Has nothing to do at all with UIA or MSAA. Basicly what UIA and MSAA
> does is inform the screen access voice access software what ever that
> this is a button this is the state of the button name value etc. what
> the default keyboard action is is up to the designer of the ctrl.
> Hth
>
>
> Jim Grimsby JR.
> E-mail and Windows Live Messenger: Jgrimsby@roadrunner.com
> Skype Jim.grimsby
> Twitter Jgrimsby
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Katherine Moss [mailto:Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 5:46 PM
> To: Jim Grimsby JR. ; 'Tom Kingston'
> Cc: gw-info@gwmicro.com
> Subject: RE: I feel like a fool for asking this, but what does Control
> Insert F do?
>
> Yeah, but why is that? What does it mean when keyboard action is not
> possible on a button or Control? Is that something to do with UIA or
> something like that not being implemented correctly?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Grimsby JR. [mailto:jgrimsby@roadrunner.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 8:37 PM
> To: 'Tom Kingston'
> Cc: gw-info@gwmicro.com
> Subject: RE: I feel like a fool for asking this, but what does Control
> Insert F do?
>
> Hi,
> Ok here is one. Go to the winamp liberry now go rip a cd with it. The
> rip button is focusable in the tab order but pressing space or enter on
> it does nothing. So you have to route the mouse to the button to click
> it. Even though it is in the tab order it does not respond to keyboard
> action.
> I know of a number of programs that have this issue.
> Hth
>
>
> Jim Grimsby JR.
> E-mail and Windows Live Messenger: Jgrimsby@roadrunner.com
> Skype Jim.grimsby
> Twitter Jgrimsby
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Kingston [mailto:tom.kingston@charter.net]
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 5:23 PM
> To: gw-info@gwmicro.com
> Subject: Re: I feel like a fool for asking this, but what does Control
> Insert F do?
>
> Sorry. Guess I had Katherine's initial question in mind. And now that I
> read her question again I must admit I don't get it. I've never seen a
> control in the tab order that wouldn't respond to keyboard input. And
> if she clicked it to focus it in order to change the field name, then I
> would think it would be obvious that she needed to click it again with
> the mouse hotkey to activate it. I must be missing something here. But
> that's okay.
>
> Tom
>
>
> On 5/3/2012 8:08 PM, Jim Grimsby JR. wrote:
> > Hi,
> > This answer did not get out of control. She asked the question what
> could
> > she do if she was unable to take action on a focused control. I
> provided
> > her with directions on how to deal with said instances. Please
> > explain where my answer to this question was in error.
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> > Jim Grimsby JR.
> > E-mail and Windows Live Messenger: Jgrimsby@roadrunner.com
> > Skype Jim.grimsby
> > Twitter Jgrimsby
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tom Kingston [mailto:tom.kingston@charter.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 5:04 PM
> > To: gw-info@gwmicro.com
> > Subject: Re: I feel like a fool for asking this, but what does
> Control
> > Insert F do?
> >
> > This answer seems to have gotten a wee bit out of control.
> > Control-Insert-F is simply to assign or change a field name of a
> > control. It has no effect other than what you hear when you tab to
> it.
> > And using it again allows you to change or delete your change so that
> > it goes back to what it was. Generally it's used for controls without
> > a recognized field label, or ones that speak the wrong label. But you
> > can use it to change them to your liking as well.
> >
> > Hth,
> > Tom
> >
> >
> > On 5/3/2012 7:41 PM, Jim Grimsby JR. wrote:
> >> Generally if a focus control is not assigned to a default action
> with
> >> the keyboard such as pressing enter to press a button or pressing
> the
> >> space bar to check a check box you usually can click the mouse on
> >> that button. So you tab to the control and route the mouse pointer
> to
> >> the focus and click the left mouse button.
> >>
> >> If controls are not focusable using tab the list focus controls app
> >> is very helpful here.
> >>
> >> If you want to find a button clickly to click on it or perform some
> >> other task the hot spots app is usuefull here.
> >>
> >> Hth
> >>
> >> Jim Grimsby JR.
> >>
> >> E-mail and Windows Live Messenger: Jgrimsby@roadrunner.com
> >> <mailto:Jgrimsby@roadrunner.com>
> >>
> >> Skype Jim.grimsby
> >>
> >> Twitter Jgrimsby
> >>
> >> *From:*Katherine Moss [mailto:Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu]
> >> *Sent:* Thursday, May 03, 2012 4:35 PM
> >> *To:* Jim Grimsby JR.
> >> *Cc:* gw-info@gwmicro.com
> >> *Subject:* RE: I feel like a fool for asking this, but what does
> >> Control Insert F do?
> >>
> >> Oh nice. Well then, too bad my mentor took me off of the server he
> >> had me on. Though it kind of didn't matter anyway, since we're
> moving
> >> away from that piece of software anyhow. Now question then. Have you
> >> ever tried to use that and once the button was labeled, you weren't
> >> able to click it still? And if so, what was your next step.
> >>
> >> *From:*Jim Grimsby JR. [mailto:jgrimsby@roadrunner.com]
> >> <mailto:[mailto:jgrimsby@roadrunner.com]>
> >> *Sent:* Thursday, May 03, 2012 7:32 PM
> >> *To:* Katherine Moss
> >> *Subject:* RE: I feel like a fool for asking this, but what does
> >> Control Insert F do?
> >>
> >> It labels a feeld.
> >>
> >> So lets say you want your desktop to say pretty katherines desktop
> >> you can simply issue the command type pretty katherines desktop and
> >> the next time it gets focused window-eyes will say pretty katherines
> desktop.
> >>
> >> It is really useful for edit bboxes and buttons with no static text
> > lables.
> >>
> >> Hth
> >>
> >> Jim Grimsby JR.
> >>
> >> E-mail and Windows Live Messenger: Jgrimsby@roadrunner.com
> >> <mailto:Jgrimsby@roadrunner.com>
> >>
> >> Skype Jim.grimsby
> >>
> >> Twitter Jgrimsby
> >>
> >> *From:*Katherine Moss [mailto:Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu]
> >> <mailto:[mailto:Katherine.Moss@gordon.edu]>
> >> *Sent:* Thursday, May 03, 2012 4:19 PM
> >> *To:* gw-info@gwmicro.com<mailto:gw-info@gwmicro.com>
> >> *Subject:* I feel like a fool for asking this, but what does Control
> >> Insert F do?
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> The question is in the subject line. I know that that facility has
> >> something to do with labeling originally unlabeled text on controls
> >> and such, but what exactly is it? I just tried it while on the
> >> desktop doing nothing important, and it prompted for a field name.
> If
> >> somebody could let me know, I'd appreciate it.
> >>
> >> Katherine Moss,
> >>
> >> Administrator of the AccessCop Network, previously Raeder24.org.
> >> Visit us on the web at http://raeder24.org<http://raeder24.org/>;
> >>
> > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original
> > sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your
> > message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your
> > message to gw-info@gwmicro.com so the entire list will receive it.
> >
> > GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You
> > can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
> >
> >
> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original
> sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your
> message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your
> message to gw-info@gwmicro.com so the entire list will receive it.
>
> GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can
> manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original
> sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your
> message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your
> message to gw-info@gwmicro.com so the entire list will receive it.
>
> GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can
> manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
>
>
>
>
> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original
> sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your
> message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your
> message to gw-info@gwmicro.com so the entire list will receive it.
>
> GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can
> manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to gw-info@gwmicro.com so the entire list will receive it.
GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
