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From:
"Jim Grimsby JR. " <jgrimsby@roadrunner.com>Subject:
RE: WebAIM Survey on Screen ReadersDate:
Thu, May 3, 2012 5:26:58 pmHi,
This I can agree with that most of the brows mode options that are off buy
default should be turned on. In fact one of the things I do when I first
install window-eyes is turn all of the element's that can be reached with
brows mode hot keys and a few others on like access keys.
While I am not gw micro I can make a guess that a lot of these things were
turned off to avoid overwhelming the new user and as users have need of
these other feature they turn them on as they go. After they have read the
documentation explaining what these features do and how they help you do
what ever it is your trying to do. It was a good idea for the simple web.
Now the simple web is a lot more complex and users are finding that they
need these features almost right away and should not have to go in and fuss
about turning things on. This I agree with.
So the feed back to gw micro is not that they don't support x when they do.
But the feedback is unless there is a real good reason to keep it off in the
next version we want everything on.
Jim Grimsby JR.
E-mail and Windows Live Messenger: Jgrimsby@roadrunner.com
Skype Jim.grimsby
Twitter Jgrimsby
-----Original Message-----
From: Yusuf [mailto:yusufaosman@btinternet.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 2:09 PM
To: Jim Grimsby JR.
Cc: 'Jared Smith'; gw-info@gwmicro.com
Subject: Re: WebAIM Survey on Screen Readers
Jim, I think you've misunderstood. The problem that I and others have
experienced is that when cursoring down the page the questions related to
the radio buttons and check boxes aren't being read out. So, instead of
getting a question followed by a series of check boxes, we're just seeing
the check boxes.
Activating field sets in the browse mode verbosity dialogue fixes this, but
the question is why is something so basic not accessible without having to
tweak something, that unless you know a lot about web sites and Window Eyes
won't make any sense? I'd venture to suggest that one of the most basic
things about using the internet is the ability to fill out information in a
form.
I'd still be interested in knowing what GWMicro have to say about this.
I'd also still like to know why the form works properly with Fire Fox
without making any changes to WE but doesn't with IE9.
Yusuf
On 03/05/2012 21:03, Jim Grimsby JR. wrote:
> Ok let me understand this. They are turning off brows mode to move
> threw radio buttons? If so why? Lets cover a few things. Filling out a
form.
> Use brows mode to move to the form. Use e to move threw feeld sets. Etc.
> when you get to a control such a a check box radio button you don't need
> to leave brows mode. Simply check or uncheck it with the space bar.
Only
> turn brows mode off if you find a control that need direct interation
> such as a combo box etc. when done with this control turn brows mode
> on once again. Quite simple I am not saying that window-eyes doesn't
> need some work on what is done when brows mode if turned off. It does.
> How-ever it can be done if you know how to use your screen reader.
>
>
> Jim Grimsby JR.
> E-mail and Windows Live Messenger: Jgrimsby@roadrunner.com
> Skype Jim.grimsby
> Twitter Jgrimsby
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jared Smith [mailto:jared@webaim.org]
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 12:18 PM
> To: gw-info@gwmicro.com
> Subject: Re: WebAIM Survey on Screen Readers
>
> Thank you for the feedback Jim. Some very good functionality described
here.
> However, the real benefit of fieldsets and legends are that they can
> provide the description of a grouping of form controls when those form
> controls are accessed directly. When you tab to a radio button in a
> fieldset, the fieldset legend should be read. Window-Eyes does not
> support this. All other screen readers do.
>
> You are correct that Window-Eyes users can navigate by fieldsets. They
> can navigate by forms. And they can manually enter Browse mode and
> find the fieldset legend themselves. But the fact that this vital
> information is not presented in context with the grouped form controls
> while navigating the form poses a distinct barrier to Window-Eyes users.
>
> I have now received 5 e-mails and several other survey comments from
> Window-Eyes users who have had less-than-optimal experiences with our
> fully standards compliant survey form. Users of other screen readers
> have described it as "the most accessible survey I've ever taken." I'm
> not trying to pick a fight, I'm simply suggesting that Window-Eyes
> would provide a much more accessibility experience for its users if it
> supported fieldset accessibility while navigating a form.
>
> Jared Smith
> WebAIM.org
> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original
> sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your
> message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your
> message to gw-info@gwmicro.com so the entire list will receive it.
>
> GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You
> can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender
only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is
related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to
gw-info@gwmicro.com so the entire list will receive it.
>
> GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can
manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
>
>
If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender
only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is
related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to
gw-info@gwmicro.com so the entire list will receive it.
GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can
manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to gw-info@gwmicro.com so the entire list will receive it.
GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
This I can agree with that most of the brows mode options that are off buy
default should be turned on. In fact one of the things I do when I first
install window-eyes is turn all of the element's that can be reached with
brows mode hot keys and a few others on like access keys.
While I am not gw micro I can make a guess that a lot of these things were
turned off to avoid overwhelming the new user and as users have need of
these other feature they turn them on as they go. After they have read the
documentation explaining what these features do and how they help you do
what ever it is your trying to do. It was a good idea for the simple web.
Now the simple web is a lot more complex and users are finding that they
need these features almost right away and should not have to go in and fuss
about turning things on. This I agree with.
So the feed back to gw micro is not that they don't support x when they do.
But the feedback is unless there is a real good reason to keep it off in the
next version we want everything on.
Jim Grimsby JR.
E-mail and Windows Live Messenger: Jgrimsby@roadrunner.com
Skype Jim.grimsby
Twitter Jgrimsby
-----Original Message-----
From: Yusuf [mailto:yusufaosman@btinternet.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 2:09 PM
To: Jim Grimsby JR.
Cc: 'Jared Smith'; gw-info@gwmicro.com
Subject: Re: WebAIM Survey on Screen Readers
Jim, I think you've misunderstood. The problem that I and others have
experienced is that when cursoring down the page the questions related to
the radio buttons and check boxes aren't being read out. So, instead of
getting a question followed by a series of check boxes, we're just seeing
the check boxes.
Activating field sets in the browse mode verbosity dialogue fixes this, but
the question is why is something so basic not accessible without having to
tweak something, that unless you know a lot about web sites and Window Eyes
won't make any sense? I'd venture to suggest that one of the most basic
things about using the internet is the ability to fill out information in a
form.
I'd still be interested in knowing what GWMicro have to say about this.
I'd also still like to know why the form works properly with Fire Fox
without making any changes to WE but doesn't with IE9.
Yusuf
On 03/05/2012 21:03, Jim Grimsby JR. wrote:
> Ok let me understand this. They are turning off brows mode to move
> threw radio buttons? If so why? Lets cover a few things. Filling out a
form.
> Use brows mode to move to the form. Use e to move threw feeld sets. Etc.
> when you get to a control such a a check box radio button you don't need
> to leave brows mode. Simply check or uncheck it with the space bar.
Only
> turn brows mode off if you find a control that need direct interation
> such as a combo box etc. when done with this control turn brows mode
> on once again. Quite simple I am not saying that window-eyes doesn't
> need some work on what is done when brows mode if turned off. It does.
> How-ever it can be done if you know how to use your screen reader.
>
>
> Jim Grimsby JR.
> E-mail and Windows Live Messenger: Jgrimsby@roadrunner.com
> Skype Jim.grimsby
> Twitter Jgrimsby
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jared Smith [mailto:jared@webaim.org]
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 12:18 PM
> To: gw-info@gwmicro.com
> Subject: Re: WebAIM Survey on Screen Readers
>
> Thank you for the feedback Jim. Some very good functionality described
here.
> However, the real benefit of fieldsets and legends are that they can
> provide the description of a grouping of form controls when those form
> controls are accessed directly. When you tab to a radio button in a
> fieldset, the fieldset legend should be read. Window-Eyes does not
> support this. All other screen readers do.
>
> You are correct that Window-Eyes users can navigate by fieldsets. They
> can navigate by forms. And they can manually enter Browse mode and
> find the fieldset legend themselves. But the fact that this vital
> information is not presented in context with the grouped form controls
> while navigating the form poses a distinct barrier to Window-Eyes users.
>
> I have now received 5 e-mails and several other survey comments from
> Window-Eyes users who have had less-than-optimal experiences with our
> fully standards compliant survey form. Users of other screen readers
> have described it as "the most accessible survey I've ever taken." I'm
> not trying to pick a fight, I'm simply suggesting that Window-Eyes
> would provide a much more accessibility experience for its users if it
> supported fieldset accessibility while navigating a form.
>
> Jared Smith
> WebAIM.org
> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original
> sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your
> message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your
> message to gw-info@gwmicro.com so the entire list will receive it.
>
> GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You
> can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender
only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is
related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to
gw-info@gwmicro.com so the entire list will receive it.
>
> GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can
manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
>
>
If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender
only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is
related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to
gw-info@gwmicro.com so the entire list will receive it.
GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can
manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to gw-info@gwmicro.com so the entire list will receive it.
GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
