The GW-Info list is a discussion list, which can be very active with many messages per day. Any subscriber of the GW-Info list has the ability to post on-topic messages.
From:
Sarah BaughnSubject:
Re: re guess whatDate:
Wed, Feb 2, 2011 1:24:52 pmcharset="iso-8859-1"
Well, I am quite ignorant about scripts and scripting, so I couldn't tell you whether the problems she is having are due to scripting, but I can tell you that sometimes I have the problem she talks about where I am going through the list of email in Windows Mail, and if I have replied to an email,, I will delete that email that I have replied to and be placed at the next email in line, and WE will say "replied to" when I haven't even read the danged thing yet. It also does this with attachments, and read and unread messagess, and while it is a minor annoyance, I would like to know what causes this problem.
Sarah
----- Original Message -----
From: jim grimsby Jr.
To: gw-info
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: re guess what
hi,
well if you have scripting turned off and your having problems chances are that your problems are not related to scripting.
sorry I don't have windows mail or outlook express to test with. the last time I used them though I was not able to reproduce this. of course you the user can create set files using speak windows hyperactive windows float windows cursoring keys that read information as you press then and so on.
I would urge you to take a look at www.gwmicro.com/sc to find out about some of the fun things I was talking about. I am sure you will find features there that might make you rethink your views on scripting support.
hth
Jim Grimsby JR.
Skype name: Jim.Grimsby
Skype number: 909-498-4711.
E-mail: jgrimsby@roadrunner.com
Twitter: Jgrimsby
From: GEORGE AND PAMELA DOMINGUEZ
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 4:09 AM
To: jim grimsby Jr.
Subject: Re: re guess what
I have scripting turned off, and it still does the sluggish things that jaws does that it didn't used to do. I have windows mail on this computer, and outlook express on my other computer. I didn't know you wrote set files; I thought you just downloaded them. As for all the other things, I don't even know what you are talking about. Pam.
----- Original Message -----
From: jim grimsby Jr.
To: gw-info
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: re guess what
hi, scripting support has added a lot of functionality to window-eyes and has not cluttered it up at all. the reason for this is that you get to pick and choose what scripts you use. if you don't want to use scripts at all you always have the option of turning them off altogether.
also there are a number of scripts that you can use to help you get programs accessible with doing little or no work. for example I have a number of programs that have controls that are not in the tab order. I need to be able to get to these controls quicklyy. using the focus control window-eyes eyes still uses set files so if you can make a set to get a job done you still have that option. script all I have to do is list the controls move to the control I want and press enter focus is taken right to it. another feature is the hot spot script. with that script I can find text on the screen or move the mouse to a location and then once done perform a task.
a real life example. lets take windows live mail and it's rss reader. this is a really nice rss reader.
the one problem with it is that the view online control is not focusable at all and has no hot key.
so with the hot spot script I define it to find the search string if in this class where it would be found if it is found then it clicks the left mouse button on it and my web browser is opened.
thus allowing me to view the whole article on line.
with out scripts I would have to do a mouse search to find it and then click it. and if I should want to read something else with the mouse I am going to have to do this again.
another good example where scripting can help is with brows mode itself. using the IEmax script I can start selecting text with brows mode buy pressing f8. now when I am done I press shift f8 to finish selecting and copy to the clippboard.
the IEMAx script offers a whole lot more but this gives you an idea of the power it brings to brows mode and internet explorer.
scripting offers qt support.
scripting offers the ability to change the voice device with a keystroke. choose another voice for read to end. spell check in any edit box. the list just goes on and on.
window-eyes still uses set files so if you want to make a set file and a set file will do the job you still have that powerful option.
for example I wanted a set file to do things with windows 7 dvd maker. I maid the set file and no scripts were needed. a friend of mine need the same functionality with jaws I ended up having to write a script. what took me five minits to do with window-eyes took me 30 to do with jaws. so as you can see window-eyes give you the best of both worlds here.
so if a set file will do the job your better off just using a set file.
that being said you don't want to be limited to just a set file. for example your not going to get a qt program to work with a set file. you need the power of the scripting system to get that working. your also not going to add features to window-eyes with a set file so you need a scripting system to get that job done.
then there are times where you need both. a good example of this is windows live messenger. it is easy to make a set file to watch the status line. and when the word is is seen on the status line to read the window that will tell you x is writing a message.
a set file is not going to allow you though to quickly review the messages with the alt+number commands. so you then use a script to get that job done.
so the more tools you have in that tool box the better off you are. it is a question of using the right tools at the right time to get the job done.
as for your issues with e-mail I can not reproduce them in windows live mail nor in outlook 2010.
so what client and what do we need to do to reproduce the problem?
brows mode yes needs an overhall but for most pages day to day use it works fine.
I can use bard do my banking pay bills etc with no problems. there are a few pages that brows mode has issues and having looked at those pages quite frankly one of the problems a lot of the time comes down to just plain bad web design. dynamic
html is a problem though and a anoiance that really needs to be fixed.
also the problem where window-eyes half of the time will not return to the location it was after leaving brows mode to open a dialog or view another page is an anoiance so this needs to be fixed as well.
so not saying the system is perfict because it isn't but it works well enough for everyday use. also there are some work arounds that if you use you can cut down on these problems.
for example when downloading on bard don't just press enter on a link. when your ready to download a book. press control enter. then after the download dialog opens you will be back exactly in brows mode where you were before you opened the link.
place markers work better with window-eyes then they do with jaws for example and you got more control over what is read and how it is read then you do with jaws.
also some pages quite frankly read better with window-eyes then they do with jaws. sendspace sending a file is one big one. so there are advantage and disadvantages.
jaws does a little better right now then window-eyes on the web. now this probably will not be true in the feuture because if we look at the past we know that some times gw micro falls behind. this is just the facts. but we also know when they catch up they usually get the job done and right. jaws has scripts long before window-eyes. now that window-eyes has scripts they are much more powerful. so window-eyes scripts and what you can do with them are more powerful then what you can do with jaws scripts. set files and the ability to configure them is much more powerful then what you can do with simular jaws utilitys. so what makes you think in the long run this will not be true of the web.
hth
Jim Grimsby JR.
Skype name: Jim.Grimsby
Skype number: 909-498-4711.
E-mail: jgrimsby@roadrunner.com
Twitter: Jgrimsby
From: GEORGE AND PAMELA DOMINGUEZ
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 8:26 PM
To: gw-info@gwmicro.com
Subject: re guess what
I feel the same way as Nimer does. I have had trouble with browse mode for years. I also feel that it got messed up when scripting was introduced. It does things that only jaws used to do. It is slower when reading emails, also, which is like jaws. When you read an email, escape out of it and hit delete and it goes down to the next message, it reads remnants of the last one. For example, if the last message had an attachment, it will say attachment on the next message, even though there is not one; or if you replied to the last message, the next message will say "reply to", even though the previous message is the one you replied to. In order to get rid of this, you have to arrow up and down, and then those left-over things will go away. Yes, I know this is not earth-shattering, just annoying. But it is something that used to happen in jaws, not window eyes. One of the differences between jaws and window eyes was that jaws needed scripts to work properly, but window eyes used set files. You just had to download the set files. Scripting seems to have cluttered it up and changed the way it works, not for the better. Pam.
If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to gw-info@gwmicro.com so the entire list will receive it.
GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
Well, I am quite ignorant about scripts and scripting, so I couldn't tell you whether the problems she is having are due to scripting, but I can tell you that sometimes I have the problem she talks about where I am going through the list of email in Windows Mail, and if I have replied to an email,, I will delete that email that I have replied to and be placed at the next email in line, and WE will say "replied to" when I haven't even read the danged thing yet. It also does this with attachments, and read and unread messagess, and while it is a minor annoyance, I would like to know what causes this problem.
Sarah
----- Original Message -----
From: jim grimsby Jr.
To: gw-info
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: re guess what
hi,
well if you have scripting turned off and your having problems chances are that your problems are not related to scripting.
sorry I don't have windows mail or outlook express to test with. the last time I used them though I was not able to reproduce this. of course you the user can create set files using speak windows hyperactive windows float windows cursoring keys that read information as you press then and so on.
I would urge you to take a look at www.gwmicro.com/sc to find out about some of the fun things I was talking about. I am sure you will find features there that might make you rethink your views on scripting support.
hth
Jim Grimsby JR.
Skype name: Jim.Grimsby
Skype number: 909-498-4711.
E-mail: jgrimsby@roadrunner.com
Twitter: Jgrimsby
From: GEORGE AND PAMELA DOMINGUEZ
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 4:09 AM
To: jim grimsby Jr.
Subject: Re: re guess what
I have scripting turned off, and it still does the sluggish things that jaws does that it didn't used to do. I have windows mail on this computer, and outlook express on my other computer. I didn't know you wrote set files; I thought you just downloaded them. As for all the other things, I don't even know what you are talking about. Pam.
----- Original Message -----
From: jim grimsby Jr.
To: gw-info
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: re guess what
hi, scripting support has added a lot of functionality to window-eyes and has not cluttered it up at all. the reason for this is that you get to pick and choose what scripts you use. if you don't want to use scripts at all you always have the option of turning them off altogether.
also there are a number of scripts that you can use to help you get programs accessible with doing little or no work. for example I have a number of programs that have controls that are not in the tab order. I need to be able to get to these controls quicklyy. using the focus control window-eyes eyes still uses set files so if you can make a set to get a job done you still have that option. script all I have to do is list the controls move to the control I want and press enter focus is taken right to it. another feature is the hot spot script. with that script I can find text on the screen or move the mouse to a location and then once done perform a task.
a real life example. lets take windows live mail and it's rss reader. this is a really nice rss reader.
the one problem with it is that the view online control is not focusable at all and has no hot key.
so with the hot spot script I define it to find the search string if in this class where it would be found if it is found then it clicks the left mouse button on it and my web browser is opened.
thus allowing me to view the whole article on line.
with out scripts I would have to do a mouse search to find it and then click it. and if I should want to read something else with the mouse I am going to have to do this again.
another good example where scripting can help is with brows mode itself. using the IEmax script I can start selecting text with brows mode buy pressing f8. now when I am done I press shift f8 to finish selecting and copy to the clippboard.
the IEMAx script offers a whole lot more but this gives you an idea of the power it brings to brows mode and internet explorer.
scripting offers qt support.
scripting offers the ability to change the voice device with a keystroke. choose another voice for read to end. spell check in any edit box. the list just goes on and on.
window-eyes still uses set files so if you want to make a set file and a set file will do the job you still have that powerful option.
for example I wanted a set file to do things with windows 7 dvd maker. I maid the set file and no scripts were needed. a friend of mine need the same functionality with jaws I ended up having to write a script. what took me five minits to do with window-eyes took me 30 to do with jaws. so as you can see window-eyes give you the best of both worlds here.
so if a set file will do the job your better off just using a set file.
that being said you don't want to be limited to just a set file. for example your not going to get a qt program to work with a set file. you need the power of the scripting system to get that working. your also not going to add features to window-eyes with a set file so you need a scripting system to get that job done.
then there are times where you need both. a good example of this is windows live messenger. it is easy to make a set file to watch the status line. and when the word is is seen on the status line to read the window that will tell you x is writing a message.
a set file is not going to allow you though to quickly review the messages with the alt+number commands. so you then use a script to get that job done.
so the more tools you have in that tool box the better off you are. it is a question of using the right tools at the right time to get the job done.
as for your issues with e-mail I can not reproduce them in windows live mail nor in outlook 2010.
so what client and what do we need to do to reproduce the problem?
brows mode yes needs an overhall but for most pages day to day use it works fine.
I can use bard do my banking pay bills etc with no problems. there are a few pages that brows mode has issues and having looked at those pages quite frankly one of the problems a lot of the time comes down to just plain bad web design. dynamic
html is a problem though and a anoiance that really needs to be fixed.
also the problem where window-eyes half of the time will not return to the location it was after leaving brows mode to open a dialog or view another page is an anoiance so this needs to be fixed as well.
so not saying the system is perfict because it isn't but it works well enough for everyday use. also there are some work arounds that if you use you can cut down on these problems.
for example when downloading on bard don't just press enter on a link. when your ready to download a book. press control enter. then after the download dialog opens you will be back exactly in brows mode where you were before you opened the link.
place markers work better with window-eyes then they do with jaws for example and you got more control over what is read and how it is read then you do with jaws.
also some pages quite frankly read better with window-eyes then they do with jaws. sendspace sending a file is one big one. so there are advantage and disadvantages.
jaws does a little better right now then window-eyes on the web. now this probably will not be true in the feuture because if we look at the past we know that some times gw micro falls behind. this is just the facts. but we also know when they catch up they usually get the job done and right. jaws has scripts long before window-eyes. now that window-eyes has scripts they are much more powerful. so window-eyes scripts and what you can do with them are more powerful then what you can do with jaws scripts. set files and the ability to configure them is much more powerful then what you can do with simular jaws utilitys. so what makes you think in the long run this will not be true of the web.
hth
Jim Grimsby JR.
Skype name: Jim.Grimsby
Skype number: 909-498-4711.
E-mail: jgrimsby@roadrunner.com
Twitter: Jgrimsby
From: GEORGE AND PAMELA DOMINGUEZ
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 8:26 PM
To: gw-info@gwmicro.com
Subject: re guess what
I feel the same way as Nimer does. I have had trouble with browse mode for years. I also feel that it got messed up when scripting was introduced. It does things that only jaws used to do. It is slower when reading emails, also, which is like jaws. When you read an email, escape out of it and hit delete and it goes down to the next message, it reads remnants of the last one. For example, if the last message had an attachment, it will say attachment on the next message, even though there is not one; or if you replied to the last message, the next message will say "reply to", even though the previous message is the one you replied to. In order to get rid of this, you have to arrow up and down, and then those left-over things will go away. Yes, I know this is not earth-shattering, just annoying. But it is something that used to happen in jaws, not window eyes. One of the differences between jaws and window eyes was that jaws needed scripts to work properly, but window eyes used set files. You just had to download the set files. Scripting seems to have cluttered it up and changed the way it works, not for the better. Pam.
If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to gw-info@gwmicro.com so the entire list will receive it.
GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
